An Com is trying to pass a new rule for 2009: 18+ must wear tights

Posted by Christina on January 26, 2008 at 2:34pm in Shoes and Costumes

How do you feel about this? I like the looks of tights, but I also like Poodle socks. I hardly ever actually wear tights with my solo dress unless it's for a very cold parade.

I'd hate to have tights on for an outdoor feis in the summer! It's not like you can just throw them on before the competition, tights take time to put on...Plus the heat would be unbearable.

Not every solo dress matches black tights.

Shoes fit differently with tights than with poodle socks.

This just seems like a silly idea.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Fi on April 9, 2008 at 4:57pm: Hi thanks for letting us know. So how do they ascertain half of all dancers-do they mean in the world or people that dance exclusively at the worlds or All Irelands?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Johanna on April 9, 2008 at 6:27pm: i actually don´t know the only thing is that i know that mary sweeney asked the over 21ns at worlds buti don´t know about the all irelands and so on, sorry; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Morrigana on April 19, 2008 at 2:40am: I definitely disagree with this rule as I think it gives adults an unfair disadvantage for the simple reason that you buy shoes to fit with socks not tights and I don't think you will dance your best in tights if you shoes feel too big. I have danced in both and I much prefer socks because of this. If An Com was based in Canada they wouldn't be able to instate this rule as it goes against our Charter of Individual Rights and Freedoms (this rule would violate the third section-the Right to not be discriminated against based on age, sex, gender, ethinicity etc). The rule is simply age-ist and violates the charter which is part of our country's constitution. I don't know if Ireland has something similar to the Charter, but if they do my bet is that could be used as an argument for not allowing this rule to be instated. I didn't think I would be so against this new rule but i guess I am! lol I also signed the petition.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Fi on April 19, 2008 at 1:48pm: Hey Morrigana-thanks for your valuable comment-this is what I have said all along. I know that it is discrimination on the grounds of age, which at least in the UK is now illegal-there are laws in place which I think came about last year-Ireland has ratified some of the European treaties so I will try and find out-thanks!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Morrigana on April 20, 2008 at 8:03pm: You're welcome =).. I only wish I knew more about laws in Ireland to help you. I am only really familiar with the Canadian Charter because it was instated in recent history in Canada (with Prime Minister Trudeau) and is a huge part of the "Canadian mentality" of including everyone in our society (and I was born here and grew up with this notion). I am assuming Ireland does have some sort of constitution so I guess we will keep our fingers crossed and hope there is a section on discrimination. Let me know what you find out if you can! (I will try to look as well) Good luck!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Patricia on April 20, 2008 at 6:54pm: Hey guys,

I don`t like the rule either, but it`s just a question of wearing tights or not - nothing else. If the shoes are too big with tights, so go and buy a smaller size - we always need new shoes once in a while. I really like my poodles, as I think, they are quite cozy, and I will definitly wear them during class. But, If adjudicators think, that tights are more ladylike - I can cope with it. It`s just for feiseanna, just for these few dances and if it helps, that adj. take adults more seriously, I will do my best to support it. So - from this day on - I will compete and do grades in tights (and think my own thoughts).
Trish; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Morrigana on April 27, 2008 at 11:16pm: I agree that there are worse things going on in the world then making adults wear tights in competition but I still think it is unfair. I think its discrimination to force one age group to do something and not another and I dont see what the problem is with leaving it the way it is-everyone wear what they dance best in. And with respect to buying new shoes, maybe it is different where you are from but where I am from dance shoes are extremely expensive ($300-500 or more Canadian dollars). I dont think it is fair to make adults buy an extra pair of shoes and spend yet another large sum of money on Irish dance when that money could be spent better elsewhere (like buying food for your family etc). Also, even if money wasnt and issue its not like you can just buy another pair of shoes and put them on an dance in them. Shoes take weeks, if not months to break in in order to be comfortable enough to wear without wrecking your feet. It would take a lot of work to break them in.. and yes even though it is possible to do this, it is a large waste of time and not to mention pain to go through for a rule which has really no grounds for being enforced aside from "looking more lady-like" (which in itself doesn't make sense-dont little girls wear tights with dresses in western cultural attire?).

I just want to let you know that I am not saying all this to attack you as I feel every opinion should be respected. I didnt feel this passionately about this at all at first but the more I think about it, the more unfair it seems. I am just saying that on principle, I think this rule is wrong, and I personally want to do something about it. There is not much in this world that I, a lonely student/irish dancer from Canada, can change but I do think this is one thing I can. If enough people protest this rule, it can be changed, and that would be great because a discrimination would be stopped. To me, discrimination, no matter how big or small, has to stop. If we don't, then we are saying it is ok and then how long will it be before age-ist discrimination gets worse, like not letting adults compete in feiseanna at all, for example. I know this is a stretch from just having to wear tights, but I have seen this sort of thing happen before and it only takes one card to fall and the institution to become unstable and eventually collapse. We have to do our best keep the card standing and uphold the fair spirit of competition, and not have adjudicators judge us based on our age (which they will easily be able to do with the tights rule) but judge us souly on our dancing ability.

(again.. I hope you dont think I'm being mean by replying to your comment, I just wanted to have a chance to justify my stance. Everyone should just get to wear whatever they want and feel they will dance their best in, including your choice to wear tights if you wish.) Best of luck in future feiseanna tights or no tights!

~Morgs; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Patricia on April 28, 2008 at 8:38am: No - I don`t think it`s mean or something else.

As mentioned, I don`t like the rule either. I also don`t want, that something worse happens (like stopping adult competitions) - but I think, that "give and take" works.

I once had to experiance, that adj. and musician was smiling, when I entered the stage in a midnight blue velvet solo dress, wig and poodles (no sparkle, just a classy, elegant dress with celtic embroidery; just look at my avatar - I was in my end 20ies). I really didn`t feel comfortable afterwards. It was mean, but it happend.

If we wear tights (as I think many adj. prefer "the look"), I think, that they take us more seriously. I`m totally with you, that tights shouldn`t effect judging or anything else. But if it helps to create a better understanding, why adults start to dance and that they want to get as much attention as kids - why not? I want to be treated as an Irishdancer - not as a crazy old female doing kids sports.

In my opinion, there are many other topics, which should be discussed - not the "to poodle or not to poodle" question. How about starting to get older age groups in competitions? Than everyone in your category would wear the same! Here in Mainland Europe, we are lucky enough to have those age groups (35 and over or sometimes even 45 and over) and you dance to the same dance speeds as children do (not like adult comps and the &over comps). This would be/is fair treatment!

regarding shoes: I know, how it feels (currently my feets are coverd with open blisters due to new heavy shoes). I don´t want people to by new shoes right now. I just think, that you can buy a smaller pair, whenever you have to buy a new pair anyway. In the meantime, you could wear short black socks under the tights. This helps a lot.

Trish; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Morrigana on April 28, 2008 at 10:03pm: I definitely see your side of things and I agree that adults should be taken more seriously with respect to Irish Dance. In Canada it is very much a "kid" thing and I wish it was geared more towards everyone. I think the reason why I feel stronger about not enforcing this rule is because I do not want to be labelled an adult and be overlooked by adjs. I am short and have somewhat of a baby face so when I am all dressed up during a competition the adjs. do not know my age especially since there is basically the "under 12" and "over 12" catagories and not much age seperation aside from that here. To the adjs. I could be anywhere from 12 to 20s in age, they do not know. The fact that they do not know my age will make their opinion less biased as to who the best dancer is. I would like to keep the annonimity during competitions and once the rule is inforced, I would be labelled as "adult" which I feel will affect the adjs decisions towards me negatively.

Aside from the expense and the extra effort, I would not have a problem with wearing tights if adults were respected more in Irish dance. The reality of it here in Canada is they are not. They are constantly overlooked by judges and schools and many dancers are encouraged to "retire" at age 21. I was surprised to find that internationally there are catagories that go up to age 35, it gave me a sense of hope that one day, the North American Feis Commission would adapt the same regulations and support and encourage adults in competitive Irish dance. I agree that we should fight to have adults gain more respect in Irish dance and that should be the main focus. But, in the mean time, for me here in Canada, it would hinder my chances of getting placed in competitions if I were forced to wear tights, which is why I do not support the rule. Until all Irish dancers are treated with the same respect, which is reflected in the catagories you mentioned, I have no choice but to conform to the system and dress and act accordingly. I have to do whatever it takes to place if I ever want to move up in competition.

Adults need to be respected more in dance: I defintely agree with you there 100%.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Aine The Dragon on April 29, 2008 at 11:52pm: The problem is, this tights thing has essentially categorized people who were once just considered Irish Dancers, as "adults" instead. Here in the states, we have age groups going up to a make of 21 & over, though often in local competitions the highest is 19&over, or 17&over, or 15 & over dpending on the level and # of competitors. In these groups, there is no distinction between the younger dancers and older dancers, and no distiction to separate the andovers from the other age groups. Its just another age group like the rest, same dances, same costumes, same poodle socks. The "adult" category is separate, and not really considered an age group, its like a special and sometimes remedial(in the attitude of the judges/organizers, not the ability of dancers) competition group.

Now we have certain age groups who are allowed to wear socks or tights (anyone under 17) and certain other age groups are only allowed to wear black tights (over 17) which were previously associated with the "adult" categories. I dont mind that judges think older dancers should wear tights, and in fact, if it were a suggestion, or if a judge commented that tights would look more mature/dignified, I would not be offended. What irritates me is that is is required, where before we had choices.

Ideally, we would be moving towards more fair treatment to older dancers, but this tights thing is a big backslide in that department. Its not that its such a bad thing to have to wear tights, its because the tights have been previously associated with adult dancers (those in the adult category, who are treated so poorly) and with older "andover" dancers who were less fit and a bit self-conscious about their thighs. Basically, its like we are all being given that same label, and the fear is that we will be treated more and more like the "adults".; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by maria on April 29, 2008 at 11:21am: At my young age of 32, if I was still dancing I would be pleased to be wearing tights, I would feel a bit self conscious without them :) who wants to see my corned beef legs!!!! I certainly don't.

Maria x; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Aine The Dragon on April 29, 2008 at 11:56pm: At my young age of 25, I think my legs are pretty nice looking. And I cant think of a single 17-19 year old dancer I know whose legs are not good looking.

The previous "rule" or lack of one, allowed anyone who wanted to to wear tights, so you would still be able to wear them. The problem is, everyone has to wear them now (well, everyone over 17) no matter how their legs look.; ▶ Reply to This